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Saving Midi Out

I have a KN3000. Living here in southern Spain, the sunshine can be quite bright, and it's often difficult to see the settings on the KN3000. I know that, when a MIDI file is played, it sets the sounds for that song. So I was considering creating MIDI …

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Saving Midi Out

computergenius

computergenius


Total Posts: 7
Joined: April 19, 2015

I have a KN3000. Living here in southern Spain, the sunshine can be quite bright, and it's often difficult to see the settings on the KN3000.

I know that, when a MIDI file is played, it sets the sounds for that song. So I was considering creating MIDI files without any music in them - I could click a song name on the computer, and it would set the sounds and settings that I want for the selected song on the KN3000. Maybe some could have drums / bass etc., as a backing track, but that would be an extra. I really want to be able to set the sounds, and know that they are going to be correct when I am on stage, and have more important things to worry about!

However, I can't see how to -
1) export all the settings in the current song setting via the midi port.
2) save those settings into a midi file.

Even if I can find a 3.5inch disk, I have no idea if the drive is working - and I can't read floppies on my computer.

Suggestions, anyone?

Posted on April 19, 2015 at 3:35 PM
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8 Replies

admin

admin
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 1085
Joined: February 2, 2014

Re: Saving Midi Out

Hi Computergenius (great name),

Well. Ok, I have plenty of suggestions for you but the first thing I would do if I were you is invest in a floppy disk! My goodness, how cheap are they? You should also consider getting a USB Floppy Drive, without those two you can't access the hundreds of Free Styles in our Members Area for starters.

You have 24 Panel Memories and 10 Sequencer Songs on KN3000 so that's potentially enough for 34 songs if you're careful with how you program things. If you added a floppy disk in to that I'm sure you could find time for two disk loads in a show, giving you 102 keyboard setups. That's the way I would go.

If you're wanting to connect the computer into the mix I would look at Jos's software athttp://www.1manband.nl/

In particular, One Man Band, which I use myself. Apart from the obvious things it would let you do (when you have a read of the site) you can program any button on your computer keyboard to send any MIDI message, or sequence of messages. I use mine with a touchscreen computer but just as easy with a keyboard.

As you're a computer genius, lol, you could also take a look at his MPL software.

If you want to step things up take a look at Varranger -http://www.varranger.com/ - I want one but I can't afford it yet.

Or you could look at one of the hardware MIDI controllers from Native Instruments for example, with which you won't need to take your computer and you could program the pads to act as panel memories.

There's probably a software equivalent to those and if you find one let us know because I would like one, I just haven't had time to look.

But honestly, for convenience get a floppy disk or convert your KN3000 to use a USB floppy emulator.

I can only recommend these floppy drives, I've tried many and only these are reliable & work with later versions of windows:

USB FLOPPY DRIVE UK

USB FLOPPY DRIVE USA

Let us know how you go.
Mike

Posted on April 19, 2015 at 5:17 PM

computergenius

computergenius


Total Posts: 7
Joined: April 19, 2015

Re: Saving Midi Out

Gold! I shall go through this with a fine tooth comb (or similar) later.

My situation is that I play live and sing, gigging with various musicians, and solo. Mostly rock, blues, jazz based. I spent some years working pro, where we opted to take jobs in interesting countries, but had to play "nice" music. So now that I don't do music full time, I don't do "nice" anymore.

For the solo stuff, I sometimes use the orchestra, sometimes "piano solo", but mainly I have backing tracks, all my own playing, sometimes done via sequencer, odd times done via the KN3000 orchestra. I love vocal harmonies, so I don't want a midi only solution. But I have midi connections for the laptop, so I suspect that I might be able to use the Free Styles.

As to the programming side, I could perhaps write the Midi codes to set the keyboard, but it sounds a long way round, when I hope to be able to save the settings from the keyboard. One of my first projects on my Sinclair Spectrum, was to write a MIDI player in what we called "machine code" at the time. It was too impractical for live shows, and the tempo wasn't steady, but it gave me a good idea of what MIDI was - although I have forgotten most of it now!

So I will do some Proper Work right now, and get back to your message as soon as I can.

Thanks again!

Posted on April 20, 2015 at 10:08 AM

admin

admin
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 1085
Joined: February 2, 2014

Re: Saving Midi Out

In OMB it's easy to program the buttons for the sounds you want to program, just refer to the reference guide. So you can have a button that sets up your right 1, right 2, left and rhythm plus any effects easily enough.

If you're struggling with the reference guide, use the Falcosoft MIDI player. The player is bi-directional, so if you select a sound on your keyboard it will show you what patch that sound is on the MIDI player.

http://falcosoft.hu/softwares.html...

Midiplayer is free but please give an appropriate donation to Zoltan if you use it. This MIDI player specifically supports Technics keyboards and I'm very grateful to him for his work to support our instruments.

However, you can only transfer Styles to KN3000 using floppy disk, there's no other way to play them.

If you're really anti-floppy (I use floppies all the time on my KN7000 as well as SD Card so I like floppies) then you should get an emulator. Now that USB sticks are so tiny I think that emulators are a realistic option. Before now I would have been scared of snapping the USB stick. I could see you going down this route and loving it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt1id1fmOPg...

Let us know how it all goes,
Mike

Posted on April 20, 2015 at 11:28 PM

computergenius

computergenius


Total Posts: 7
Joined: April 19, 2015

Re: Saving Midi Out

I should have started this a bit earlier. I haven't had time to search out any floppy disks yet - and last night, all 24 memories, which had my song settings preset, were all showing the same rhythm and tempo (:-<

btw, I now notice that, whatever

So a little work for me there, then.

I will try the FD, but the emulator sounds like a really good idea.

Now let me get these current clients out of the way, then I can get on with the Real Stuff...

Posted on April 21, 2015 at 9:56 AM

falcosoft

falcosoft


Total Posts: 2
Joined: July 21, 2014

Re: Saving Midi Out

Hi !
I think I could help solving the problem of Computergenius. Mike and I have already talked about saving re-patched midi files within Midi Player.
There is a beta version with this feature partly implemented. In this version you can freely modify the programs and banks with the help of the user interface (and it can save the changes) but it is not yet capable to save changes when the program and bank change messages are sent from midi input. When it will be ready you don't need to use the player's interface but you can use your native keyboard to set the programs/banks and can save the modified midi.
I have made an empty midi file with 16 tracks/channels for Computergenius. Mike can help to explain the usage scenarios better than me since I'm not a native English speaker. But I'm trying my best.
1. You should load the empty midi file to Midi Player.
2. Disable Autoplay (right click context menu on the playlist)
3. Choose your desired Midi working mode (GM, GS, XN..) by right clicking the first aid like icon on the right hand side of the player.
4. Choose every channel with the channel UpDown control for which you would like to set instrument and select the appropriate program/bank combination.
( Pay attention to the 1 step offset difference: Midi Player's program 0 equals program 1 on Technics keyboards as Mike noticed).
5. Select 'Save patched midi' menu item (Playlist context menu).
6, Now you can load the midi file that initializes your keyboard with the previously defined programs/banks.

You can download the new test version and the included empty.mid file from here:
midiplayer_28_test.zip

Ps: Any feedback is welcome

Best Regards:
Zoltán Bacskó
Falcosoft

Posted on April 22, 2015 at 7:05 PM

falcosoft

falcosoft


Total Posts: 2
Joined: July 21, 2014

Re: Saving Midi Out

I have added the promised feature so you can edit programs/banks directly from your keyboard (if you select your keyboard as active midi input device) and can save the modified/patched midi files.
The output is standard midi file so any players can use the files but remember that NX specific program/bank combinations sound properly only if the player send NX init sysex (like Midi Player does if you choose so).

Download location is the same as above.

Posted on April 22, 2015 at 9:58 PM

computergenius

computergenius


Total Posts: 7
Joined: April 19, 2015

Re: Saving Midi Out

Thank you, Zoltán. Your English seemed perfect to me. I speak a few different languages, but Hungarian has me totally beaten!

I will check this out over the next couple of days.

Posted on April 23, 2015 at 11:55 AM

admin

admin
United Kingdom

Total Posts: 1085
Joined: February 2, 2014

Re: Saving Midi Out

Zoltan, this is absolutely BRILLIANT!

I've just done some testing. I loaded a commercial MIDI that I purchased recently.

With the Midiplayer set to NX settings ofor my KN7000, I proceeded to select each Part in the KN7000's mixer (The KN7000 assigns Parts in the mixer to each Track).

The bi-deirectional selection works perfectly, so I could save the MID file with the KN7000s NX data in it.

The instrument sounds on KN7000 have pre-selected effects applied to them which greatly enhances the sounds over and above simply selecting a regular General MIDI sound.

Playback from the PC sounds many, many times better.

Next, I loaded the patched MIDI direct onto the keyboard. Here I had a few issues because the file is recognised as GM rather than NX. However, If I load the file and then put the keyboard into NX mode it works perfectly and gives yet another increase in quality (because the onboard effects initialise in a slightly different way than if we play direct from computer, MIDIs always sound better when played directly on the instrument.

A fantastic success. I did the same operations on my keyboard yesterday and it took 40 minutes. This now takes seconds to do!

I'll email you directly over the weekend. Brilliant features!

Best wishes,
Mike

Posted on April 24, 2015 at 10:21 PM